Healthcare and The Heresy of Jesus Christ, Spokesmodel

http://matt-mattjwest.newsvine.com/_news/2009/10/04/3346457-existence-information-vs-god-

Eternal Existing Informational Universe:

Well the control premise for most religions is the human ideological construct around a GOD and it's supposed Will .. However, that has little to do with the belief in a Self aware supernatural being called a "GOD"...The belief of a GOD in Christianity for example believes this being has created everything... However, there is a very simple way to prove this as an unlikely answer to existence by simple deductible logic in two different ways..

1) We can all agree "Existence" exists.. And for a religious person they believe a "GOD" exists... The flaw in this is apparent... If a GOD is within existence it could not have created it... You can't exist outside existence in order to create it.. You either exist or you don't... Simply put, God can not pre-exist existence.. It's a virtual impossibility even for a Supernatural being...

This suggest that existence is the eternal element that makes the universe and not a GOD... Existence is of it's own definition and always points back to it's self...

This would also mean there is no such thing as "Nothing".. Nothing in the literal sense can not exist within existence.It can not be a "THING" and not fall into the definition of "Existence".. it's merely a descriptive word to describe the absence of something... There is also no such thing as a TRUE VOID... A void is not void of existence and obviously not void of the information that gives it a definition. A void now becomes a contradiction to it's own definition.. Thus, in existence there can not be a void in the literal sense..

2) Information.. Information is key to existence... It can be said that existence is pure information... And here is where a self aware Deity also fails as a likely explanation... The Deity would be in need of information and existence... it would be subjected the requirements of those two elements in order to exist and know it exists..

So what is intelligence? It is the collection of information..Hence Wisdom.. In knowing this.. The Deity could not even be self aware or even know it is a GOD without the information required to know he is who he is.... A supernatural being would not be without limits or rules bound to existence... Thus this so called "GOD" would be enslaved to the very same rules as we all are....

Debunking religion isn't hard with deductible logic... It simply makes more sense that existence it's self has to be the base to it's self.... Existence can not be created... It can only simply exist...

However, nobody will ever know how exactly existence works or why it is what it is... This type of information is not obtainable... It's like trying to travel to the core of a Black Hole to see what really goes on... It's impossible to answer... I will post a really good example below of what I mean by unattainable information.."

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The Example: ( A discussion with a gentleman..we will call him K) This is a copy paste of his post and my reply to his misunderstanding of what I meant by unattainable information that is beyond our natural and technological perception..

First..What K wrote sparked the example I have provided below based on his "Hill" analogy..: I wrote the example to better explain to him what unattainable information is..

K wrote:

"The three year old says, "that 'bent ground' goes really fast"

The ten year old says, "that hill is higher than the rest of the land, and you can ride fast down it"

The twenty year old says, "Physics has taught me that the pull of gravity will cause an object to be pulled down that elevation, and I wonder why there is an elevation of the land there?"

Their grandfather says, "that elevation was made many years ago when they dug out an area for a pond and deposited the ground that was removed over to that area and made a hill...to build a house on that would not flood...but that house is no longer there and only the raised elevation remains."

My Reply:

Take everything we currently know about this Universe and then try to explain that to a person who was born mute, deaf, blind, un-able to smell touch or feel anything.. To them our Universe doesn't exist because It is beyond their ability to perceive it.. This information is unobtainable to them... They even may not know that they have 2 hands and two legs or even a physical body..

Take that same example and try to explain how that person feels or how their perception of being is like... And you will realize that this also is unobtainable information... There is no simple 3 year old analogy that can make simple explanations to things we can not perceive... So even in an outside view can be limited to what information is available for you to understand... You would have to be in both places at once... And even then you are still in another place of existence that you can't ever fully understand..And this will always be true because you can not go out side of existence in order to understand it or even create it..

So even if this mute wakes up and discovers our universe or world and it explains to us what it's own was like we are till left with the questions about this universe and what is beyond it or what makes it what it is.

The hill is well into the realm of a child's perception and thus the information is subject to interpretation and understanding... A child's view on that hill is merely the basic view of what that hill is.. A child would not know what a hill is if it could not perceive it..

We can only develop theories based on what we know or things we know and do not understand... A larger vocabulary isn't going to change this... Like the Complete human mute example can only guess to understand it's own existence and universe based on what it can perceive. And that complete mute may not realize that it was born from another living thing in another universe that it can not see or understand....

So can you understand a complete mutes universe? is this person even self aware.. What does it see... What kind of world does it live in? We can only guess and we have the advantage of knowing the mute's existence...

This how humans are when it come to understanding the Universe and existence... The bulk of the necessary information is not perceivable... Hence to have even some understanding of your existence beyond what you know or can perceive you would have to be outside that locked perceptual existence to understand it.. Hence the mute can not fully understand it's existence without gaining touch, smell, and sight.. The mute is forever locked into its own little universe never to fully grasp or understand it...

Existence is basically described by its self.. It just is what it is and always has been.... You can't make logical sense on how existence can be created by the pre-existing or by a pre-existing GOD..because nothing it's self is still existence... Thus, this makes nothing is contradictory to its' own definition as where existence is not... And a GOD has to be within Existence so it couldn't create it's self or existence. So it is logical to say that there may very well be no self aware GOD that exists..

So GOD didn't create existence, while nothing only exists as a descriptive word for the absence of something and can not describe actually be in existence in the literal term... Hence, Existence either exists or it doesn't .. There is either absolute nothing or there is something... ;) Basically Nothing can't EXIST AS A "THING" because it then falls under the definition of existence.. Hence the contradiction..

Example:

I can say there is nothing on my table but empty space... To describe what isn't there... But yet there is still space or at the very least information to tell me there is space there... So the term nothing can't ever be used literally when it concerns existence...

Also note that I am agnostic in view... This article sounds atheist but remember it can't prove a GOD couldn't have been created... Hence a man with tools and a pile of wood looking to build a house... This article only suggests that it is less likely or an improbability that a GOD had created existence or information...

Please note as well that a definition of a GOD does not have to equal a self aware being with a "will" The definition of a GOD can very.. Like the following philosophy:

(example purpose only to make a point)

Existence it's self could be considered the GOD ..The one eternal base element.. And we could all simply be apart of this "GOD" or existence as one vs two separate entities... Hence 1+1= 1 The formula for Love... Love that is truly unconditional and neutral because we are all already at one with GOD in that sense... No judgments, to preconditions... Pure neutrality....Something every religion lacks here on earth...

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Here is another way to logically look at this:

A Self Aware GOD can not be Existence... If GOD is existence then it would simply be existence without self awareness.. To have a self-awareness it would be in the need of pre-existing information or collection of in order to have self awareness... It makes no sense to say existence is self aware because it requires a second element within existence in order to exist... I don't see rocks telling me about this sexy rock next door or about his family outing at a river bank... It doesn't have personal views or feelings...

look at the very Base of existence as a blank page or a Canvas and look at information as the building blocks of creation... Existence is the eternal base element.. And information is a second eternal element that requires Existence in order to exist it's self..Existence hence is a host.. In order to have self awareness you first must have a blank page to write information to... You then need that information to create this self awareness... These two elements are the basis of creation.. And a Self awareness can not exists without them... It takes two to tango here...

And what is interesting about this is that Existence and information could be both eternal elements but in a symbiotic form where information needs existence as a host for it's own existence... So now we are talking about Two eternal elements instead of one... It's just one living inside another where one needs the other to exist...

So the formula could be as below:

1) Existence (Eternal,Base, stage, canvas or Host to information and everything else)

2) Information (Eternal parasite to Existence that make up building blocks for creation)

3) The Created or Creation (Self awareness made from blocks of information) or (the Universe or Life)

ok ok.. really simplified :)

Existence (Needs self) <--Information (needs existence) <--Self awareness (Needs Existence + Information) <-- Self aware GOD (needs existence + information + self awareness)...

Simple math 1+1+1= Self awareness :) Wait... I'm self aware :)

So what we have here is a "Eternal Existing Informational Universe" where Existence and Information are two eternal elements (A host and a symbiont) that are the base of creation.. A universe that simply exists...

And yes I am writing a book... But I am trying to simplify it atm... :P

"religious in politics, not religion,"

Ummm.. that makes no sense.. Religious politics is still has to do with religion.. it's about religion in every sense of the word.. The political movements are directly tied to the belief system or ideology

I suppose but that is kind of the premise of religious politics.. To legislate their ideology.. It's purely a process to becoming a religious theocracy... Religions don't believe in freedom of religion... They are more cults that anything else.... And if you study the politics you will realize that is exactly what it's about... Power and control over a following... Brainwash enough people with fear mongering to ensure it's dominance over the masses..

Example: (1 of thousands I find all over the world)

found a flyer that has a capital D that is on fire with a black back drop.. In white letters it states "Today is your day of decision" And inside it gives fake examples of people who were sinful that have been "Saved"...

Christianity uses brainwashing techniques in order to create a following... It's the carrot and the stick trick where the ideology will tell you that it will save you as long as you join the Ideology...However if you don't you will be damned to the house of pain (Dr Monroe)/hell... The victim is them given what they call a "Decision" or "Choice" to make... The Key to this programming tool is that it is designed so the victim feels they are given no other choice but to submit their lives to the ideology or face the House of PAIN!... And that is the fundamentals of brainwashing and how it works... And that is exactly what the bible represents... The bible is designed this way from cover to cover... And a tool for both religious power and political power...

Example 2:

Christianity wants to force intelligent design into schools or public schools in order to have access to more impressionable minds... It's premise is to compete with evolution while banning any other religious opinion or ideology from the subject... This means Agnostic or even atheist points of view...

Religions are very dangerous... It instills hate, judgement, and anything other than "Unconditional Love"... Which is a Gimmick that the Ideology uses... It relies on that the masses don't do any critical thinking on the subject... And the "New Testament uses this very Gimmick! While the ideology is a complete Contradiction to the definition of "Unconditional Love" Or even "Love"

The point of "the religious in politics" comment was that I'm not looking for people to debate the existence of God, just if the Religious Right is being internally consistent.

If the religious right believe that the individual is personally responsible to take care of themself, and if they believe that individuals should personally help the poor and needy, and if the also believe in free will, then I would say yes they are being consistent.

BTW the reason why I stated my point of View on the existence of a GOD has everything to do with my political view on Freedom of Religion... Hence freedom of religious beliefs... I am Agnostic.. But this help you better understand the political side of where one is coming from...

Which is the purpose of posting that huge post... It's Key to note that religious politics always turn into religious debate... And that is done so by intent because that is actually apart of the political movement... They are pretty much one in the same...

As for the Health care... The only reason the Religion would want control over that is to give more power to the ideology in terms of using it as a tool create a larger following into the ideology through the exploitation of it.. Hence read the example above. Or the one below:

Example 3:

If you are starving or sick I can offer to help or cure you... I then tell you that I can save your soul if you join the ideology... but if you don't you will be damned to the house of Pain or hell.. It's the same carrot and stick trick where giving you food or healthcare is like Icing on a cake.. It's used and exploited as a tool to convert as well...

Missions to places like Africa have nothing to do with simply helping people.. Their sole purpose is to use the food as a conversion tool.... "I know this because I have done this"... The people that go there to do this either know this or they are ignorant and actually think they are going there to help these people without exploitation of those who are vulnerable and impressionable...

"I get that is your opinion, but it's not what the article is about. Also, the use of bold type really doesn't make your arguments any more heard. Now, please if you want to comment further, do it on topic. Thank you."

Just hold on.. I was breaking thus apart by segments.. I am getting to the subject to which you have written about.. But I would prefer to have a robust explanation to why the Church or the Religion would want to have this type of political power... Especially, in healthcare... It's important to know the underlining drive behind the political movement if you want to make a political statement such as the one you are posting...

"There is a reason that so many hospitals start their name with word "saint"."

"these are men of God who have no problem mixing their duty the Lord above with how they deal with men on Earth."

I am doing no different than you are doing here.. I am just making a much deeper discussion on the subject.. And these very sentences you wrote has a lot to do with what I wrote above..

"that Christians should be for the system that delivers the greatest good to the most people and satisfied only when that system provides the best to everyone."

And this is not what the purpose of the political movement is about.. The political movement really has nothing to do with healthcare reform... It has nothing to do with anything other than it's own Ideology and the enforcing of spreading it's dominance, control, influence, and power... It's the same line of thinking when you think about what the 300 years of Burning were about... It was about persecution of other religious beliefs and the spreading of it's own influence and control... Though today it may not be as insanely violent but the political movement is just as insanely manipulative in it ways to subject it's ideology on to the People...

So yes the politics can not avoid the argument because the argument is apart of the politics.. They are one in the same... You can't separate the two... Your own statements convey the same argument..

So here we GO.. TO THE POINT!:

"whose will it is that they are attempting to honor by taking this position?"

And now go back and read what I have wrote and you will realize why we had this discussion ;)

Just so you know.. I was once a very devout Christian.. I use to do advertising for many churches across 5 states... I was deeply in the politics and it is the political part that made me stop to think about what I was doing and realize what the ideology was really about... A rare view that most don't see..

I am now Agnostic.. I don't follow a religious ideology anymore..

Anyways.. My apologies if this has gone to deep... I do get carried away sometimes :/

"But why then trust it to large corporate interests?.."

I don't.. There really isn't any one entity that you can place a trust into... The best currently existing Healthcare system that is at least semi functional is to have competing entities... New Zealand has Public, Private, and Government options.. Their healthcare system is much lower on costs and all around much better than the current system... The problem with the healthcare system is that the people don't have any real say in controlling the Demand or prices... Healthcare is not a Capitalist system.. It's a socialist system riding on the back of capitalism regardless if it is public, private, or Government run...

The only benefit to a public option is that you won't be denied healthcare to ensure profits... Public option as a system would be little different to the Religious system... But the religious system will exploit it to further their own power and control.. The Public system become open to corruption or miss use to where the funds dry up... Kind of like social security....

There really is no perfect system for healthcare unless you take an ant colony approach to it where it's a free system devoid for the need on money or the riding on an ideology...

Hence you will be subject to whatever corruption each entity will have in the system... And at this point I would place more trust in a system that isn't tied to an ideological agenda... But don't think for a minute that I would trust any system that is subject to corruption..

So I think our Best option is Competition... The public option would open the doors to competition.. Giving more options to the public gives the public more control on prices and demand.. Thus if the public option can not deny healthcare and is cheaper the Private options will be forced to compete or die as an option.... Strong competition helps to reduce corruption... It doesn't get rid of it but it makes it more manageable...

The problem with the current reform attempts is that it tries to enforce everyone to have health insurance... It's the ant colony idea but it's riding on money to support it...Which equals failure of the system because not every ant can participate or afford to participate in the effort..

The lowest cost and the most possibly affordable healthcare system that relies on money is one that operates at COST.. Devoid of profit and charges according to the actual estimated cost of the system...

You must also realize that most of the healthcare costs having nothing to do with what the public has control over.. Most costs are associated with equipment and supplies and the need for large facilities and staff... That is about 90% of the costs... We can't control what X company sells X medical equipment or supplies for... We can't control what X doctor makes or how much it costs to keep and emergency vehicles safely maintained and staffed... You would have to start placing caps on costs.....

So even if there was no such thing as insurance or any other middle man the costs will remain difficult to control...

Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"

"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

"Which ones?" the man inquired.

Jesus replied, "'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'"

"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"

Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

— Matthew 19:16-21, New International Version

Why exactly are Christians against this?

because, as demonstrated in comment #4, they dont understand the issue. they think that it's about giving their money to the govt, when, in reality, it is about us keeping our money for us, merely using the govt (of the people) to manage it.

i think that too much personal investment in religion can cripple a person's critical thinking skills. but that holds true for too much personal investment in anything. one problem is that, unlike many other aspects of our lives, religion itself actually demands absolute personal investment.

many people look so hard at god that they forget how to look at other people.